Assistant GM & Vice President of Football Operations Catherine Hickman (4.24.26)
How far out could you guys sort of start talking with the 49ers about this possibility?
“The way Andrew (Berry) operates in those situations is we start pretty early at a variety of possibilities and at some point he’s like, ‘hey, from this pick down, let’s start making calls, let’s start checking in’ to kind of see what’s out there. And then as you get closer to the pick, things warmed up with San Francisco and he was able to close the deal and allow us to pick a really good player and person.”
I think this is only the third time that Andrew has traded up to select the player he’s usually going to trade back and collect assets. What was it about Emmanuel’s (McNeil-Warren) skill set that made it so appealing? And I know he even mentioned a week ago about positionless hybrid defenders and those big impactors.
“Yeah, I think in this case, we’re trying to build a team here. It’s not just always about adding assets or collecting picks. When there’s a player that’s still on your board that’s falling to you, that you have really high grades on both as a person, as a player, it becomes a no brainer when you have an opportunity. That’s really how we felt about Emmanuel.”
Do you guys consider him kind of a center fielder for safety, ball hawk type safety?
“Yeah, we really see him as a versatile player that’s going to be able to play at a variety of spots for us. To what you just said, ball hawk is definitely in the description and really just someone that with his size, his athleticism, the way he moves for his size. I was down at his pro day and it’s pretty impressive. So I think really someone that’s going to be able to give us options.”
Other than his pro day, what were the interactions with Emmanuel?
“He was here too for a Top 30 visit. Just a really mature, impressive young man. When we met, he talked about his journey, not having a lot offers coming out of high school, going to ‘Juco’ and how he felt the connection, the chemistry at Toledo, when he went there, they offered him, he committed on the spot and then he had offers to transfer, decided to stay, which as you guys all know, it’s almost, I think something pretty rare nowadays. Just was really loyal to the school that gave him a chance and he wanted to do the best he could there and he did that. So really we’re welcoming someone that’s going to really add to our culture and someone that’s extremely mature and well rounded.”
Considering the four players that you were able to end up with, it almost feels like you couldn’t have gamed that out if you try. How pleasant of a surprise was it for you guys to be able to get these four players and economize your picks while doing it?
“Yeah, I think to your point, in the draft, there’s a mix of skill and luck, and I think we’re some of this is coming together this year in terms of how the picks already have played out, and we’ve just been able to acquire some really good players at every spot so far. And again, that will be additive both on and off the field.”
First year you guys have had multiple picks in the fifth round. Does Andrew consider that some kind of magic route or something or what? Just coincidence you guys keep collecting fifth round picks.
“Definitely no magic, but I’d say those assets can be very valuable. Whether that’s for coming back up, packaging them to come back up. We really can use them in a variety of ways and if not, make the picks, there’s some good players that come out of the fifth round as well, and that can be great additions for our team. So at this point, we just want to continue to improve our team and get the best players we can.”
Just from a skill set standpoint, can you just kind of work through what is so special about Emmanuel?
“I think what’s so special about Emmanuel is the versatility that he brings. You’re thinking of a player that can play high, can play low, a player that has excellent ball skills, size, strength, physicality. So really a player that the way we want to play defense just gives our defensive coaches so many options. And I think they’re going to be extremely, I don’t think, I know they’re going to be extremely pleased to work with him.”
It seems like he’s so good at that peanut punch in particular and forcing fumbles. Like, what have you guys seen from him on film with that aspect?
“Just like the physicality, to your point, like, two things that Andrew harp on us all the time is to bring guys here in this building that are tough and competitive, and he embodies that. The way he plays is exactly the type of football that we want to play. And you’ll continue to do that here at our level.”
How important is that versatility when you guys play as much as three safety packages?
“I think it’s huge. And again, like the defensive coaches will obviously figure out how to best use them in different scenarios. But again, I cannot emphasize the versatility point more just in terms of the option that it gives to our coaches to deploy him and maximize his strengths.”
When you mentioned you’re almost surprised that he decided to stay at Toledo when he could have gone elsewhere, how do you gauge a player’s personality when it seems like they’ll jump at the from year-to-year transfer?
“Yeah, it’s a good question. I think overall, everybody makes their own decision whether that’s their own reasons, their personal reasons. So it’s not really a matter of judging whether you’re transferring or not. It’s more a matter of giving him the credit for staying loyal to the school and really wanting to give back to the school that gave him a chance when he didn’t really have any offers, now that he was producing and he could have just left. And he said something to me that really stuck out. He said something along the lines of, you know, the long term financials or the big financial gains will come when I make it to the NFL. And that’s kind of his mindset. So just, it’s just a testament to him and his maturity and his process and all that.”
It’s obviously not a secret, like not all college programs are created equal. There’s the FBS, the FCS, whatever. The MAC schools are considered like the premier programs. But you know, back-to-back years now where you took, you’re taking Emmanuel McNeil-Warren out of Toledo, obviously Harold Fannin last year. What are the things you like, see or can use to know like this isn’t just a guy who’s doing it in the MAC or at a smaller level. This is a guy that we know can play with the other players in the higher up leagues or in the NFL and actually make it.
“I like that you ask that question because that’s a conversation we had a lot when I was working in Philly (Philadelphia Eagles) under obviously Howie Roseman and Tom Donahoe, who’d been the GM, obviously been in the league for a long time. And when we talk about level competition, of course you have to take it into account in your evaluation process. But he’d say, ‘they play against who they gotta play.’ And at some point that’s what we need to evaluate and that’s our job to project that based on the tools that they have, their athletic profile and how we think that’s gonna project against NFL talent and at every level it is a projection now, maybe easier to make in some program than others, but that’s our job and that’s what we spend a ton of time doing, watching the tape. But at the end of the day, who they play against is the tape we had to watch and that’s our job to project.”
Andrew had mentioned that, you know, with that more teams playing three safety, that position is sort of gaining in profile. Is that position becoming more and more important as far as like, you know, obviously we always talk about edge rushers and corners and things like that, but is safety starting to kind of reach that level?
“I think at the end of the day, regardless of position, of course there’s premium position and those types of things, but at the end of the day, like any position that’s going to make an impact, take the ball away for us, take it away, give it back to our offense. Those become playmakers and that’s what we’re trying to add at every position and Eman (Emmanuel McNeil-Warren) brings that.”
The draft is part skill, part luck. How do you improve the skill part of it?
“I think it goes back to your process. It goes back to the ton of film that we watch. That’s where it starts and that’s years of work from our area scouts. That’s really like the ground level, the starting point. And then you add all the other pieces of information that you gather through your process, whether that’s the medical information, your character, your testing numbers, the interactions you’ve had with them, what the coaches think of them. And to me, your process gets better as you get better at aggregating all that information and make good decisions, sound decisions. Again, good player, good person. Those are things we can’t miss on.”
This is a player that was projected by many amateurs as a first-round pick. Do you think he fell farther than you expected or is this the range that you guys predict projected this player?
“We’re just happy with where we took him. I mean where he was on our board for us it was a no brainer to get up and get him based on what we think he’s going to bring to our program. So, at that point for us it’s just really excited about where we got him.”
How much does experience help just being able to go through multiple drafts and learn from how you’ve done in the past?
“I think it’s experience. I think it’s the team that you have around yourself, that you surround yourself with. Andrew has done an excellent job of having a staff that is diverse in terms of skill, experience. I mean, just at the table right now, upstairs we have Tom Telesco and Chris Polian, you have Jimmy Ray, who’s done that for decades. So just the level of experience that we have in advising our decision maker is just diverse and excellent. So, I think that helps. That definitely helps our process and making good decisions when the time comes.”
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